ABSENCE OF OPPOSITION IS NOT IN THE PRESIDENT’S INTEREST. VETO NEWSPAPER DIALOGUE WITH DR. BADRAWI

Dr. Badrawi in a dialogue with Veto Newspaper about his nomination to a ministerial post: I am ready to serve Egypt, even if I were a “school janitor”

• Mubarak made 2 mistakes. Gamal’s running for presidency in 2018 is “absurd”
• We are in need of a courageous political decision to reform the education system
• January Revolution has no parallel, but after 6 years, we were shocked by the result
• Stakeholders fight development plans.. teachers’ salaries swallow most of the budget
• We suffer an unsuccessful education system; there must be a society and public will to achieve a rapid boost
• Construction of schools by the private sector is a “temporary solution”.. Private lessons will vanish in this case
• There is a communication with the government to benefit from my experience
• Methods of drugs dispensing in Egypt are “outdated”.. The Parliament is not entitled to discuss “Tiran & Sanafir” currently
• Technical education experience did not fail. I suggest appointing a deputy prime minister for “education” affairs
• To those who propose my name as a candidate for presidential elections, I say thank you.. We still need Al-Sisi on the head of state

Symposium run by: Eman Mamoun

Participants: Mahmoud Elwan, Ahmed Salah

Egypt can raise funds to develop education in only 3 years, but it will definitely clash with stakeholders, Dr. Hossam Badrawi said, affirming that overpaid teachers and administrators’ salaries swallow the education budget every year.

While hosted in “Veto Saloon,” he assured that the partnership between public and private sectors in building schools is “currently distinctive” and will not eliminate education for free. He considers that the private sector in Egypt is still “at birth,” stressing that Egypt needs a million job opportunities annually.

Badrawi welcomed the idea of the “Booklet” system in General Secondary Exams (GSE), considering it an opportunity to change the educational system entirely. “The concept of a one-chance exam currently applied to GS is 100% incorrect,” he said.

Former Secretary General of the disbanded NDP emphasized that Egypt still in need of “Al-Sisi”, considering Gamal Mubarak’s running for presidency is “illogical”. Further details are below.

• We suffer a great legacy of issues in education. From where should we start?

We should know that a principal and a teacher are the “corner stone” in educational process system. We have to train them and upgrade their professional levels. In addition, we have to admit that the goal at the end is not the curriculum. We want to make a man with an integrated character. When a child gains self-confidence, this will result in a positive citizen who is capable of innovation.

According to Egypt “2030” vision, it upholds to the necessity of making education available for every citizen, indiscriminately and in high quality, within an effective, just, sustainable and flexible institutional system, with technology at its core to create an integrated citizen with an enlightened and diversifiable character who has a competitive capability with international and regional entities. This will be achieved through an integrated action plan that includes goals, standards, measurement, those in charge of implementation, implementation period, cost volume and setting indicators to measure success in a given year.

• What does hinder development?

Currently, the challenge is that all parties must agree on this vision. A half dictatorship and a half democracy will get us nowhere. Dictatorship will take its advantages in its way and democracy will take its disadvantages in its way. We need real democracy to enforce the law strictly. Democracy means that 51% makes the decision and 49% implements it without demonstrations in the country. If the regime wants to implement democracy, it will proceed to the end. If it wants dictatorship, it will bear the burdens.

• Can Egypt collect billions to develop education as what it did with the Suez Canal?

Of course, we can. If we talk about education, we talk about 22 million families, more than 2 million employees and a million personnel as faculty members. All of them have stable condition within a system that does not meet its goals. When the change begins, it will affect the stakeholders at the moment the state will decide that a teacher will be paid a monthly salary of EGP10,000, provided s/he is technologically competent, works 30 classes a week as well as attends training workshops and conducting researches.

-Here lies the political will, which has the ability to face everyone. We urgently need a courageous political decision to reform the education system, by declaring that in case the society approves the education development strategy, the teacher that will not comply with all requirements will not enter the class. This way, stakeholders will have to resort to a real evaluation process and private lessons will disappear.

• What do you mean by “stakeholders”?

Any person or entity that holds back the development, as they see it affecting their interests. To ensure that the stakeholders will not combat, we need a strong political back and public support to have the ability to change. I believe that requires 2-3 years.

• What about the issue of education budget and its inability to achieve any development?

There are international standards to measure the quality of education system. According to the international standards, each class has one teacher and 0.5-0.7 administrator. In Egypt, we have around 465-500 thousand classes. We need 700,000 teachers at most, but we have more than 1.2 million teachers. At the same time, we have shortage in the number of teachers. We also have around 500,000 employees. We need only 300,000, according to the international standards. Thus, the education budget is “wasted” on salaries of excess number of teachers and administrators. The state has funds to spend but it spends it inappropriately. The other challenge when starting to talk about developing the education is that we find teachers and administrators demand for a salary increment, which is their right.

• Why did the decisions to apply decentralization delay despite the repeated calls?

Decision on decentralization has been taken 20 times but it has not been implemented. In 2007, I headed the “Decentralization Application in Education and Health Initiative” in Port Said, Qena and Luxor. Serving these governorates is a service for democracy and a gradual implementation that gives an opportunity to the local official to control in a respectful, not selective, manner, until reaching a specific point followed with generalization stage. The closest example is France which implemented decentralization system over 20 years.

• What is the guarantee for the success of applying development standards after the failure of transferring the experiment of German technical education “Mubarak-Kohl” to Egypt?

Technical or dual education is a very successful experiment, but it is related to having a huge private sector that can accommodate all these students. However, this initiative along with the available private sector can only accommodate 25,000 students. Thus, the solution was to develop technical education, announce opening job opportunities, open fields for investment and production to increase the number of factories to absorb technical education graduates. Currently, we do not have a private sector that can accommodate graduates, as our private sector is in the “creation stage” in Egypt.

– In Egypt, we need to provide a million job opportunities a year. Egyptians’ investments offer 300,000-400,000 new real job opportunities with social insurance. Providing new job opportunities to 600,000 youth can be made through foreign investment that enters Egypt.

• Tell us about your vision about higher education, currently.

There are 2.22 million university students in Egypt, representing 18-23 years, approximately 29%. According to the international standards, 50% of this age group should have an opportunity for higher education, which is divided into technical, academic and vocational education. Universities in Egypt suffer students’ overcrowd. Within the upcoming 10 years, we have to prepare 200 new universities. In addition to work on economy to create job opportunities for the graduates and higher education graduate will be, within his/her qualifications, a job creator.

• Why do not we feel any development in education issue?

This is attributed to the composition of Egyptian Cabinet. Replacing a minister with a minister will not make a change as the minister is bound with dozens of other matters. Ministries are separate and do not integrate each other. The “education” file includes education, technical education, pre-school education, higher education, scientific research, culture, youth and media, i.e. “human development” issue. All these issues should be included in one file. An executive deputy prime minister should be assigned to these issues and to human development group.

This file has a group of services including health and social solidarity. A third group includes economy, finance and investment. A fourth group for national security and foreign affairs. All this makes you combine the frames in the recipient’s mind. Each ministry has a state minister. However, there must be a mastermind to move these ministries. In my opinion, Egyptian Cabinet should not exceed 20 ministers. We should know that change involves risks. The one that does not take a risk shall not succeed.

• Are you going to accept taking the file of education issues officially?

Recently, I was communicated by the government. There is cooperation with the Ministry of Planning on 2030 Vision. I was responsible for the education file and a member in coordinating committee from the beginning. My advice and consult are adopted in education issues.

• Did your name appear among the candidates for the Minister of Education post in the expected cabinet reshuffle?

There are citizens demanding that I assume the office, but I serve my country, even if I were a “school janitor”, provided that I am convinced it will be within a framework that achieves success, not one that will lead to failure. First, I wrote a book in which I explained my vision within the framework of education. Second, as for the political side, I explained my demands. If it matches the political will, “I am at command”.

• What is your evaluation to the Ministry of Education resolution to make the decision of performing exams in English at experimental schools effective next year?

If I were Minister El-Helaly El-Sherbeni, I would take the same resolution; even I would insist on implementing it. It is a part that is related to education and law. A mistake occurrence does not mean it will continue. There is no good time for reforming. Next year, the same will happen.

• What is your opinion in changing GSE system and depending on the Booklet system?

1. Students’ evaluation can be an approach to change the educational system. At the end, the teacher, the student and the family arrange their matters according to the evaluation method. Evaluation can be adjusted so that the teaching system will be adjusted to match the new evaluation.
2. The concept of a one-chance exam, currently applied to GS is “100% incorrect”. Evaluation should be accumulative over 2 or 3 years. Parents’ fear that accumulative evaluation might have corruption and bribe is a real thing. Electronic evaluation using technology may make it neutral and essential to evaluate a secondary stage student, and parents will rest assured that the teacher is not the one in control.

I say this without having seen the adjustment of the Ministry of Education. However, the idea of diversity of questions and their approaches to measure the different abilities is “correct”. I prefer this will happen within a technological system that allows for it. The system of answering in the questions paper does not fulfill my hopes regarding the digital system and should ,also, be accumulative to represent a student’s performance in secondary stage, not a once-chance exam where the student loses everything in a moment. Resolving the GS issue lies in establishing universities. Hence, each university will compete over the same student, resulting in changing the education concept in Egypt.

• Why are not there realistic movements to make the file of 2030 Vision effective?

In my opinion, after emergence of 2030 Vision, a referendum or parliamentary approval shall be conducted on it. There will be commitment on the following presidents and governments for 10 upcoming years. When there is no body to issue an annual report on it, no vision can be implemented.

• After 2 revolutions, how do you evaluate the parliament?

Out of my knowledge of some current parliament members and their seriousness in practice and learning, I can say the parliament includes 100 members that are capable of changing the form of Egyptian Parliament. Everybody knows that Egypt does not have a majority party. The parliament will not produce a government representing a majority party. Since 1952 to date, we do not have a majority party that represents the Executive.

• What about the crucial issues submitted to the parliament?

I can evaluate the parliament situation in some matters, including None Governmental Organizations (NGOs) Law, which, if issued in the form approved and suggested by the parliament, would close all NGOs which is the state main support for development. This is not recognized by the parliament. In addition, if we look into the unified Media Law, ask media personnel about their opinions in it, we will not receive the same answer. All this created a bad impression about this law.

• Where does Dr. Badrawi stand in Tiran & Sanafir issue?

I have not reviewed the basic information of this issue. However, I see that the political act on it was not at the required level. It should have been through asking a question, “Is there anything that proves the right of another country?… Egyptians have an impression that these islands are theirs?” At the end, we must respect the judgment of Supreme Administrative Court.

• But the issue is in the parliament court now!

The Parliament is not entitled to discuss Tiran & Sanafir. The case is still before court. Politically, the government raised the issue again by passing Egypt-KSA Border Demarcation Agreement to the parliament. This is in a wrong time.

• What about the absence of opposition in Egypt?

I see it is not in the interest of Egypt and the ruler. Ruling without a mature political opposition is like when you play a match with yourself. Competition creates performance quality and the feeling that a change is possible when you need it. Absence of opposition is definitely not in the interest of Egypt.

• What is your comment on stopping Ibrahim Eissa’s show?

Eissa’s statement indicated that there was intolerance towards a difference issue. I believe the statement was clear and comprehensive. Since he is a reader, journalist and expert and has a vision, his existence does not impair, but benefit, the society. Stopping his show is not in favor of democracy.

• What is your vision on health issue?

There are two things in this issue. First, 60% of medical care cost is paid from citizens’ own money. Second, the current social insurance system covers only half the society. A third thing is that there are significant issues in health that must be considered. Medical care has the priority and is the most important issue that the state must pay attention to as it meets the needs of about 60% of citizens.

– On the other hand, methods of drug dispensing in Egypt are much more “outdated” than it should be. This means that if a drug is dispensed according to the specified dose, the drug price will decrease by 30%. At the same time, expensive drugs should be dispensed only by a prescription. Imagine, 15 years ago, Egypt was one of the leading and biggest countries in drug manufacturing. To restore the lead once again, one should return to the Ministry of Investment, not the Ministry of Health.

• It is said that you will run for Presidential Elections 2018, is it true?

I support President Al-Sisi in presidential elections. I say thank you to all those who ask me to run for presidential elections for their good deeds. I tell them that we are in a stage that still needs Al-Sisi.

• How about Gamal Mubarak’s return to the scene and running for presidency?

It is absurd. Of course, it will not happen.

• The Guardian expects a new “Arab spring”, what do you think?

From my point of view, what happened was an “Arab autumn.” It was an Arab devastation from which Israel made use and got rid of Iraq and Syria armies. The issue is no longer occupying Palestine; it became a really foolishly domestic issue. We destroyed our strength. The only beneficiary is Israel, the number one enemy, now and in the future.

• Do you mean that January 25^th Revolution participated in destroying Egypt?

Actually, I declared my opinion on the revolution when it erupted. I said it was unparalleled. But after 6 years, the result shocked us. In Egypt, the institutions were destroyed, the worst things emerged, development was stopped and we lost a great potential to grow Egypt economically, socially and internationally during the past 6 years. We say we did not build a wise administration; we headed to destruction at top speed.

• Finally, in your opinion, what are the mistakes of Mubarak, the former president?

He made two mistakes. First, he had too much power through which he could boost us in fields of education and health and transition to a secular state. Second, when he left office, he transferred the power unconstitutionally and did not comply with the constitution rules by holding early presidential elections.

The interview was freely quoted from Veto newspaper hardcopy.