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At the Dreamers of Tomorrow Café
Dialogue with Socrates
Inspired by the book Chimera by Hossam Badrawi
I imagined the philosopher Socrates as having moved to our world, and coming to dialogue with me and the young people dreaming of tomorrow. In the dialogue, I used the words of Socrates to express his philosophy.
Socrates is the true founder of Greek philosophy, as he is considered a professor of the sage Plato, who in turn is a professor of the greatest Greek philosopher Aristotle. The main principle in Socrates’ philosophy was the search for knowledge, because he believed that knowledge could not be established on a correct basis except after studying the ways to reach it. Then, morality itself cannot be established if it is not preceded by knowledge, because virtue is based on knowledge.
Socrates believes that the true dignity of the soul emerges from knowledge, which is its true inheritance.
Socrates combined the accepted principles of physics with mastery of argument.
Socrates said before the meeting began, “Explain to me what your democracy is so that I can understand the logic behind what has happened over the years.”
I said: The human and electoral rights that arose in Western democracy in the middle of the twentieth century gradually became generalized according to the need of voters. Workers in industrialized countries attained them before farmers attained them, and women attained them after they became workers in factories, acting on behalf of soldiers in The war was won by the people of color in the United States after the state was forced to provide them with their services in society and in the armies gradually during the two world wars, and the different peoples won it as a result of mutual pressures and conflicts between the classes to reach a specific political formula that was acceptable to all parties.
As for human rights that are recognized in principle and are not practical plans required by equality of power between sects and masses of voters, they are represented by a human democracy that cannot be imagined without the elements of equality, individual responsibility, and the establishment of governance on Shura and on known constitutions with limits and consequences… These are the elements Which we call for as general principles and not as a necessity of an electoral reality or service in the armies, but rather they represent a true belief in justice in governance in recognition of the rights of citizens, regardless of their educational level or social position.
One of the young dreamers said: But we notice that as we look at Western democracy and what is being applied in the countries of the world, especially developing countries, we find many contradictions between philosophy and reality, the coercion of the powers granted to governments, and sometimes social injustice to classes of people who cannot afford it with the means Its knowledge and capabilities are to obtain true equality of available opportunities, as we claim and say. The most educated, the richest, and the most open to the world get the opportunity. The gap between citizens increases gradually and the opportunities for human development that we seek from good governance are often lost. Democracy may have succeeded partially in Europe and North America, but it has failed to be implemented in developing and poor countries.
One of the girls said, and Socrates was surprised:
This matter prompted us, as researchers who want to mobilize citizens’ reactions, to ask a philosophical question, Professor of Philosophers in Social Media, in which we say, “How can the one we choose control and oppress the one who chose him when he knows that the one he chooses can change his choice and that he is subject to the will of the one who chose him!!
How can those to whom the people pay their salaries belittle and owe their position to the one who pays their value and gives them their jobs, unless the system is incompetent and does not express the true balance of power?
Another young man said: People are stronger than their rulers without the need for revolutions or demonstrations if they use their rights to choose at the time of choosing.
Socrates was a little upset and said: Can the ignorant, the poor, and the enslaved person make a free choice??? It depends on the will of those who know, those who give, and those who own. Are you still arguing after 2,500 years about this type of democracy?? We have had harsh criticism towards this method of government, criticism that it would be foolish to ignore even after all these years. .
I have been lecturing in the past on the nature of an ideal state and at one point I asked my partner, Adeimantus*, who he would have preferred to steer a boat across the sea, a random passenger, or a well-trained, educated and experienced captain? After selecting the captain as the obvious choice, she transferred this metaphor to the concept of the state, and asked why we allow any ignorant person to try to run the ship of state.
The democracy you talk about, and the sophists used to argue with me about it, makes the mob choose who will steer the ship…
To lessen the astonishment of those present, I said that Socrates’ objections to democratic rule as we understand it now can be observed in his works, where he spoke in many dialogues about the very small number of people who possess those virtues that lead to the ability to rule soundly, and how a number Fewer people are able to understand it. Undoubtedly, Socrates did not consider the general population intelligent enough to manage matters and rule the state.
A young man from the audience said: This is a logic that is still on our minds. Will the government be governed by an absolute democracy in which the ignorant and knowledgeable participate in the choices, or a democracy of the elite with knowledge and experience?!
It is clear that the opinion of Socrates, the most important philosopher of his time, was that he preferred elite democracy…
Another young man studying philosophy said: But was that the opinion of the philosophers who came after Socrates as well, Doctor?
I replied, saying: You notice that Plato was influenced by his teacher. In parts of the great book “The Republic,” Plato pointed out that democracy is one of the last stages in the decline of the ideal state, a stage so bad that in the end the people may wail. A dictator to save them from a democracy that often sinks the ship. Democracy, according to Socrates and his student Plato, will bring about tyrants in the end
One of the attendees smiled and said: By God, the experience of third world countries also says that, as they replace one dictator with another using democratic mechanisms…
Dialogue with Socrates
Inspired by the book Chimera by Hossam Badrawi
I imagined the philosopher Socrates as having moved to our world, and coming to dialogue with me and the young people dreaming of tomorrow. In the dialogue, I used the words of Socrates to express his philosophy.
Socrates is the true founder of Greek philosophy, as he is considered a professor of the sage Plato, who in turn is a professor of the greatest Greek philosopher Aristotle. The main principle in Socrates’ philosophy was the search for knowledge, because he believed that knowledge could not be established on a correct basis except after studying the ways to reach it. Then, morality itself cannot be established if it is not preceded by knowledge, because virtue is based on knowledge.
Socrates believes that the true dignity of the soul emerges from knowledge, which is its true inheritance.
Socrates combined the accepted principles of physics with mastery of argument.
Socrates said before the meeting began, “Explain to me what your democracy is so that I can understand the logic behind what has happened over the years.”
I said: The human and electoral rights that arose in Western democracy in the middle of the twentieth century gradually became generalized according to the need of voters. Workers in industrialized countries attained them before farmers attained them, and women attained them after they became workers in factories, acting on behalf of soldiers in The war was won by the people of color in the United States after the state was forced to provide them with their services in society and in the armies gradually during the two world wars, and the different peoples won it as a result of mutual pressures and conflicts between the classes to reach a specific political formula that was acceptable to all parties.
As for human rights that are recognized in principle and are not practical plans required by equality of power between sects and masses of voters, they are represented by a human democracy that cannot be imagined without the elements of equality, individual responsibility, and the establishment of governance on Shura and on known constitutions with limits and consequences… These are the elements Which we call for as general principles and not as a necessity of an electoral reality or service in the armies, but rather they represent a true belief in justice in governance in recognition of the rights of citizens, regardless of their educational level or social position.
One of the young dreamers said: But we notice that as we look at Western democracy and what is being applied in the countries of the world, especially developing countries, we find many contradictions between philosophy and reality, the coercion of the powers granted to governments, and sometimes social injustice to classes of people who cannot afford it with the means Its knowledge and capabilities are to obtain true equality of available opportunities, as we claim and say. The most educated, the richest, and the most open to the world get the opportunity. The gap between citizens increases gradually and the opportunities for human development that we seek from good governance are often lost. Democracy may have succeeded partially in Europe and North America, but it has failed to be implemented in developing and poor countries.
One of the girls said, and Socrates was surprised:
This matter prompted us, as researchers who want to mobilize citizens’ reactions, to ask a philosophical question, Professor of Philosophers in Social Media, in which we say, “How can the one we choose control and oppress the one who chose him when he knows that the one he chooses can change his choice and that he is subject to the will of the one who chose him!!
How can those to whom the people pay their salaries belittle and owe their position to the one who pays their value and gives them their jobs, unless the system is incompetent and does not express the true balance of power?
Another young man said: People are stronger than their rulers without the need for revolutions or demonstrations if they use their rights to choose at the time of choosing.
Socrates was a little upset and said: Can the ignorant, the poor, and the enslaved person make a free choice??? It depends on the will of those who know, those who give, and those who own. Are you still arguing after 2,500 years about this type of democracy?? We have had harsh criticism towards this method of government, criticism that it would be foolish to ignore even after all these years. .
I have been lecturing in the past on the nature of an ideal state and at one point I asked my partner, Adeimantus*, who he would have preferred to steer a boat across the sea, a random passenger, or a well-trained, educated and experienced captain? After selecting the captain as the obvious choice, she transferred this metaphor to the concept of the state, and asked why we allow any ignorant person to try to run the ship of state.
The democracy you talk about, and the sophists used to argue with me about it, makes the mob choose who will steer the ship…
To lessen the astonishment of those present, I said that Socrates’ objections to democratic rule as we understand it now can be observed in his works, where he spoke in many dialogues about the very small number of people who possess those virtues that lead to the ability to rule soundly, and how a number Fewer people are able to understand it. Undoubtedly, Socrates did not consider the general population intelligent enough to manage matters and rule the state.
A young man from the audience said: This is a logic that is still on our minds. Will the government be governed by an absolute democracy in which the ignorant and knowledgeable participate in the choices, or a democracy of the elite with knowledge and experience?!
It is clear that the opinion of Socrates, the most important philosopher of his time, was that he preferred elite democracy…
Another young man studying philosophy said: But was that the opinion of the philosophers who came after Socrates as well, Doctor?
I replied, saying: You notice that Plato was influenced by his teacher. In parts of the great book “The Republic,” Plato pointed out that democracy is one of the last stages in the decline of the ideal state, a stage so bad that in the end the people may wail. A dictator to save them from a democracy that often sinks the ship. Democracy, according to Socrates and his student Plato, will bring about tyrants in the end
One of the attendees smiled and said: By God, the experience of third world countries also says that, as they replace one dictator with another using democratic mechanisms…
Socrates said: Haven’t you learned that democracy is a failed version of rule by the masses? I used to see that Athens is a dilapidated city, far from its wonderful constitution as set by Solon, and certainly better than theocratic rule (religious rule by monks) that is tyrannical in the name of God.
I said: The idea that democracy has fundamental faults was widespread and was later supported even by liberal thinkers. Voltaire, for example, who supported all rights to freedom of expression of opinion and religion, told “Catherine,” the ruler of Russia at the time, that “nothing great has ever happened in the world except through the genius and determination of one man combating the prejudices of the masses.” His concept of liberalism was completely separate from democracy
Socrates turned to me and said: Humans have invented many definitions for the same human actions, and just as the sophists did in our days, you must argue and kill each other over definitions whose meanings you do not agree on.
I replied, saying: You are and still are wise, Socrates…
Socrates said: I remind you that the name is not the most important element in stating the truth. If you gave the rose any other name, you would still smell its scent and see its beauty as it is… You must search for the meaning that the name means in your minds to give meaning to the words…
A young man from the audience said: If democracy is so bad, why are we practicing it now? Why do we repeat the mistake, and why do we defend it?
Socrates said: I was and still am concerned about the problems posed by an uneducated and easily led population if they gain power within the confines of the state.
He added: These facts, along with the power gained in state positions and under the hands of the voting public, are what would have led me to welcome death.
Socrates added, “There is one good thing, which is knowledge, and one evil, which is ignorance.” Education is the best hope for democracy. The people who understand the characteristics required in a leader, distinguish the difference between being a deceitful representative or a legitimate leader, and know the path they must take, which is the difference between effective democracy and the nightmare that I suffered from and I see you suffering from as well. The voter needs to understand enough to determine the appropriate person to be in power as his representative
I reviewed myself and found that even if the ruler is educated and worthy of ruling, he must be changed after a period of time or he will turn into a tyrant… This is the truth of humanity. If a person possesses power, control and wealth, he turns into evil…
I am amazed and astonished by the controversy over matters that I thought must have been decided in the future, I mean the future for me. This is history for you…
I said: The idea that democracy has fundamental faults was widespread and was later supported even by liberal thinkers. Voltaire, for example, who supported all rights to freedom of expression of opinion and religion, told “Catherine,” the ruler of Russia at the time, that “nothing great has ever happened in the world except through the genius and determination of one man combating the prejudices of the masses.” His concept of liberalism was completely separate from democracy
Socrates turned to me and said: Humans have invented many definitions for the same human actions, and just as the sophists did in our days, you must argue and kill each other over definitions whose meanings you do not agree on.
I replied, saying: You are and still are wise, Socrates…
Socrates said: I remind you that the name is not the most important element in stating the truth. If you gave the rose any other name, you would still smell its scent and see its beauty as it is… You must search for the meaning that the name means in your minds to give meaning to the words…
A young man from the audience said: If democracy is so bad, why are we practicing it now? Why do we repeat the mistake, and why do we defend it?
Socrates said: I was and still am concerned about the problems posed by an uneducated and easily led population if they gain power within the confines of the state.
He added: These facts, along with the power gained in state positions and under the hands of the voting public, are what would have led me to welcome death.
Socrates added, “There is one good thing, which is knowledge, and one evil, which is ignorance.” Education is the best hope for democracy. The people who understand the characteristics required in a leader, distinguish the difference between being a deceitful representative or a legitimate leader, and know the path they must take, which is the difference between effective democracy and the nightmare that I suffered from and I see you suffering from as well. The voter needs to understand enough to determine the appropriate person to be in power as his representative
I reviewed myself and found that even if the ruler is educated and worthy of ruling, he must be changed after a period of time or he will turn into a tyrant… This is the truth of humanity. If a person possesses power, control and wealth, he turns into evil…
I am amazed and astonished by the controversy over matters that I thought must have been decided in the future, I mean the future for me. This is history for you…
