Dialogue Dr. Hossam Badrawi with Al-Akhbar: The January revolution created a vacuum that the Brotherhood filled… and Egypt’s civilized genes quickly brought them down

Dialogue Dr. Hossam Badrawi with Al-Akhbar: The January revolution created a vacuum that the Brotherhood filled… and Egypt’s civilized genes quickly brought them down

– I thought it was more important than the 1919 revolution.. I changed my mind after the facts were revealed
Mubarak was convinced that early elections would be held.. the circles close to him changed his opinion
– We faced an intelligence game, and the history of the Egyptian state protected it from disintegration
Democracy is a long film, one of its clips is “The Election Box.”
– My family was divided over accepting the position of Secretary of the National Party.. Rifaat Al-Saeed advised me to agree

<First of all, while I was preparing for this interview, I was confused about your description of the diversity of your interests. Are you the thinker, the politician, the doctor, or the university professor.. Which prompts me to ask you about the interest closest to your heart?
He answered immediately: The university professor, of course, because the university professor is a profession that connects me with youth, and association with youth gives energy and renewal of life.

< Since you described your work as a university professor as making you close to the youth, did you not feel before January 25, 2011 that there was anger among them at the regime’s practices?
The words came out of his mouth quickly: Of course I felt and translated this in writing, and through my work in the party, but I was a minority, and I remember that I said in meetings more than once and clearly that we are a parliamentary majority and a minority in society, and I asked them how you do not see that, and perhaps that is what saved me At the critical moment.

The decision to accept the position
< A book entitled “Man of the Storm” was published by journalist Ahmed Mubarak, documenting the nature of your role in the scene of January 25, and I was confused after reading what was written about the book, so did fate choose you for this task, or did you seek this role?
– A state of astonishment appears on his face, followed by his saying: Is it logical that I seek to lead the scene and take the picture at the moment of my downfall. The decision to accept the position of Secretary-General of the National Party was not easy, as I was hesitant, and my family was divided, should I accept or not.. I was also keen to consult some opposition figures from my friends, including Rifaat al-Saeed, head of the Tagammu Party, who advised me to accept this task immediately.. My goal was to move a step forward with a popular will, but within a framework of legitimacy, through early presidential elections.

< Nine years after the January revolution, do you see it as a revolution, or is it an uprising, which is the description used by the great thinker Dr. Jalal Amin in an interview you had with him two months before his death?
– He is silent for a moment before saying: the verbal expression for me is of no value. If we go back to the encyclopedias and look at the meaning of the revolution, you will find that it changes from one situation to another, and the fact that seems clear is that Egypt before the revolution was one thing, and then something else, after the revolution it fell Institutions, the economy collapsed, the regime changed, and the Brotherhood came to power, and the question: Was what happened in the country’s interest or against it? The answer to this question is answered by history, and history is written only by the victors, meaning that if what happened in January had been annihilated, the revolutionaries would have been described as criminals, but since the regime lost, the opposite happened.

In fact, after 9 years, everything that happened in January in Egypt and before that in Tunisia and what followed in Syria and its repercussions on Iraq, Yemen and Sudan is an intelligence-coordinated arrangement aimed at dismantling the Arab countries and reducing their power in favor of Israel. Arabia.

impervious to disintegration
Are the challenges we are facing now related to what happened on January 25, 2011, and by that I mean threats facing us from the south represented by the Renaissance Dam, the east where terrorist organizations are in North Sinai, and the west where the turmoil in Libya and the Turkish intervention there, in what seems like a siege of the Egyptian state?
He let out a deep sigh in preparation for a long answer before saying: I am afraid that we think that Egypt is the target of all this, as Egypt is part of what is happening in the chaos created by the American and British intelligence, but Egypt is more difficult than collapsing, because it is a country whose government is deeply central and its state is thousands of years old. It is not easy to dismantle it, as happened in the neighboring countries, but was there a general form that the whole region was falling economically, collapsing socially and culturally, definitely yes? Is the one responsible for this being the owner of the scheme, or peoples and leaders who did not comprehend the movement of history, so we simply fell and what happened to us happened? Whatever the answer, there is a change that has occurred, but the Egyptian people differ in that they have civilized genes that enabled them to overthrow the extremist religious rule within one year, although this type of rule does not leave any country before a hundred years.

But overall, what happened in the past nine years has shown strong religious extremism and led to an economic collapse. It is no secret to anyone that Egypt in 2010 was standing on the threshold of economic growth, and we achieved growth rates that reached 7%. It is true that this is accompanied by errors and a flaw in justice. Social, but countries build on their history and do not destroy it, and revolutions are by their nature destroyed, and when they are destroyed without an alternative, a vacuum occurs, and the vacuum is filled by the loudest, most funded and most organized, and here the extremist organizations and intelligence services enter.

intelligence game
<This opinion that you say about the January 25 revolution seems to contradict your statement in an interview with Al-Akhbar by colleagues Osama Al-Saeed and Ahmed Daoud on November 27, 2011, where you described it as the greatest event in the history of Egypt?
He nods in agreement with the correctness of this description he gave to the January Revolution, before saying with a raised tone of voice: This was my view at the time, but after what I learned my opinion differed, for in the first three days of the revolution, my view of it was like the French Revolution, and better than a revolution 1919, and it was not a revolution of the hungry, or a left-wing socialist or religious revolution, but the situation changed after these three days and it became an intelligence game.

< How can the description of the revolution as an intelligence game be consistent with the masses of people taking to the street? .. Is there someone who pushed them to do so?
– He nodded before saying, his tone of voice became more enthusiastic: The game was to control the course of the revolution.. But did the people go out of their own accord?

Justice and dignity? Yes they were asking..Do they have a right..Yes, they had a right..But in order to be able to make a million people gather in one place for 19 days, you need large funding, food and toilets, people go to rest, and others replace them, and this is an administration A battle that the crowds do not do, but trained and experienced leaders do it.

< You mean the leaders of the Brotherhood, everyone who participated in the revolution was saying that they were taking over the task of the administration you refer to?
– He did not wait for the question to be completed and said: They did not participate in the first three days, but there is no doubt that there was someone who coordinated and managed.. I remember a saying by a French philosopher whose name I do not remember. He said that managing the crowd creates a change in personality, so you can with a loud voice and organization direct the crowd, so that the The person who cleans and carries roses may be the same person who throws stones and destroys shops, if he is asked to do so.

Democracy and the Election Fund
<Among the statements that I stopped before was a statement to you in Al-Wafd newspaper on August 27, 2006, in which you said that the Brotherhood had obtained 20% of the votes in the 2005 elections, meaning that the majority supported civilian rule, so how did the same majority bring them to power in the 2012 elections?
– He responds to my question with a question, saying: Since the revolution was based on the Mubarak regime, how did the representative of this regime, Lieutenant-General Ahmed Shafiq, obtain 50 percent in the presidential elections… It is no secret to anyone that there were two forces on the street, namely the Brotherhood and the National Party, but democracy is not The election box only, it is a scene in a long movie preceded by scenes and followed by scenes, and the scenes that preceded the 2012 elections paved the way for the takeover of the Brotherhood through media describing all those who belong to the National Party of corruption, and therefore they were removed from the scene in favor of the other party, and after the elections and the Brotherhood’s victory came clips such as Respecting the constitution and standing at the same distance from everyone, and when the Egyptians realized that the Brotherhood was more dictatorial, less efficient and ruthless, and only spoke with the Brotherhood, here the people’s intelligence and their genes that we talked about appeared, and the Egyptian people got rid of them.. In short, what happened before the elections led to their access to power. And what the Brotherhood did after their victory led to their end.

< Was their access to power the way to get rid of them, as this is one of the opinions that a great politician told me?
– A sarcastic smile appears on his face before he says: This is a retrospective analysis, but it is not with a previous effect, because no one would have guaranteed that this would happen. If a religious ruling reaches the rule of a state, it will last for a century.

The future of the Brotherhood
<Does the Brotherhood have a future in Egypt?
– He let out a deep sigh before saying: The only way for them not to return is the peaceful transfer of power, because when power changes, every rule begins again by making balances, and in these balances they find an opportunity to return, but the rule when it is cumulative through the peaceful transfer of power, by building Each authority over the previous one, by maximizing the positives and avoiding the negatives, this is the only way for them not to return, and history says that, Gamal Abdel Nasser eliminated them and then they returned with Sadat, who took them out of prison and killed him, and Mubarak came and balanced them, so they brought him down.

<Referring to the Mubarak regime’s balancing of the Brotherhood, I was very surprised that this regime would bring down one of its sons in the 2005 elections, while it was balancing the Brotherhood..I did not really understand how they did that…
A broad smile appeared on his face before he said: On the contrary, it is very understandable. I used to tweet out of line sometimes. There was no time when the extension of the state of emergency was raised and I agreed. I was calling for it, and during the discussion of the constitutional amendments, I demanded to limit the term of the presidency twice, and this made me popularly accepted, and on friendship with the symbols of the political opposition.

decorate the system
< Some saw in the role played by a kind of agreed opposition, which was also rumored about journalist Ibrahim Issa, who was considered by some to be an “opposition from within the regime”?
– I expected this question to hide his smile, but on the contrary, I found him saying while laughing: They used to say that my role was to “dress up” the regime, then his features would become more serious before he asked me: In what year were you born, so I said in 1980, then he follows: I mean, you were 10 years old 1990 years.

He continued, saying: When you were 10 years old, a group of young people between the ages of 35 and 40 met, and with Dr. Saeed Al-Najjar we founded the New Nidaa Association, and in this association led by that hierarchical man, we learned politics, economics and society, and when our political and economic thought grew, Our approaches to reform and change differed. We all had one goal in common, which is reform, but we took different paths to reach it. I used to and still believe that Egypt, with its future Pharaonic centralization and administration, can only move it from within, and the way to that was my joining the National Party, and others chose Among them, Munir Abdel Nour joined the opposition, and a third party preferred to remain independent to achieve balance, including Mona Zulficar, and this was the relationship between us is closer than the relations with our parties, because we were seeking one goal.

<This is why you accepted the Suhoor invitation organized by the “Enough” movement, which is the invitation that caused you problems with the regime?
I accepted all Kifaya invitations, not just this one. By the way, in 2005, when Mubarak wanted someone to talk about the regime’s point of view, he asked me to do so. I think he appreciated me well.

< Was he doing that in the same year that you were dropped in the elections?
– Yes.. Have you seen a contradiction more than that? .. He sees that I have credibility, but it seems that this did not suit the old guard in the party, which stood behind my overthrow not only in the parliamentary elections in 2005, but also in the Al-Ahly club elections in 2004 .

game threads
< The meaning of these words that you are saying is that the threads of the game were not all in Mubarak’s hands?
– nodding with mo