Dr. Hossam Badrawi Official Website
Hossam Badrawi’s full interview with the seventh day website
Hossam Badrawi’s position within the ruling National Party during the Mubarak era was confusing and confusing. On his membership within the party, without resigning from it, when everything collapsed, and the party became just the ruins of a charred building on the Cairo Nile Corniche, Mubarak only found Badrawi to introduce him to the party’s first ranks, an important part of the nation’s memory of this man who tells us about it in this dialogue As well as many files and issues, foremost of which is the education file, the new educational system, economic challenges, the role of parliament and parties, the fate of the Muslim Brotherhood, its relationship with the family of former President Mohamed Hosni Mubarak, and what he said to the former president before the January 25 revolution.
You were described as one of the reformists in the ruling National Party during the Mubarak era, then a revolution took place that overthrew Mubarak, his party and his rule.. Did you expect this end?
– I expected the anger to escalate before January 25, and before January 25, I was called in the National Party to take clearer measures for democratic openness and political openness. You made me see what is happening, so I see the first 3 days of this revolution were full of love and the desire for dignity and development, but the revolution moved to another form with the control of political Islam groups in its events, where it is not possible to keep one million in one place for 18 days without mobilization, supplies and services This cannot happen without funding and organization. The matter was not spontaneous after January 28, but was very organized.
Now do you think that Mubarak’s tendency to pass the power to his son Gamal was true?
– I do not think… In politics, the impression becomes reality without proof, so you can create an impression and make it a reality.
During the events of the January 25 revolution, you were close to the youth. Do you regret your relationship with each other after these events?
I have not regretted any relationship, although in every relationship I learn, even from those who deceive me in my relationship with him, I learn from that, and judging things after they happen is not judging things while they happen, no person sitting at his desk can tell me it was better to do this Because you weren’t there in the circumstances, under this pressure.
Among your steps was the release of Wael Ghonim. Do you regret that?
– I later found out that Wael Ghoneim had other tendencies, and I learned from this. He who does not learn from events becomes stupid.
Do you have contact with former President Mohamed Hosni Mubarak or with the family of the former president?
– No.
No communication at all?
– People mistakenly think the difference between political work and family relations. My relationship with the Mubarak family is a political one, but none of them are my friends, and I did not have their phone numbers to call them directly, and I see Mubarak family members sometimes because there are societal things happening so we meet and their children are my granddaughter’s colleagues, but they are not A direct relationship in which we are talking about events.
Dr. Hossam Badrawi in a comprehensive interview with “The Seventh Day” (2)
What is the difference between the current political situation and the political situation before January 25?
– There is a big difference between the current political situation, and what it was before January 25, both internally and externally. For example, there was a form of stability in Egyptian foreign relations, but it was formal stability, and the January 25 revolution proved that there was a fire under the ashes, and after that the fall of institutions occurred The Egyptian and the Brotherhood ride on the revolution, and the Egyptian international relations have changed because of the positions of the major countries such as the United States and Europe with the Brotherhood changed the Egyptian international relations, and the task that is currently placed on the shoulders of the current authority in Egypt now is to restore Egypt’s political status again to the global map and this is an effort for which they are thankful knowingly That the balanced internal Egypt, makes the external Egypt influential.
How do you respond to those who talk about the decline of Egypt’s regional role?
– Our role in the Palestinian-Israeli issue is still as it is a pivotal and essential role and we play it with equilibrium, and Egypt with its historical size and military capacity is still pivotal, and the strength of the Egyptian army has become the remaining competitive advantage for Egypt in the regional world around us because unfortunately there has been a terrible economic decline for us, but Egypt remains It has a competitive ability through its huge market size, military capability and historical and civilizational context.
What is your assessment of the role of Parliament and its speaker so far?
– I am in a situation where I cannot judge the performance of Parliament, and I am not in a political situation that makes me evaluate the performance of the Speaker or its members, but in a limited framework with regard to health care, education and some important issues, there are positive and negative things.
What interests you in the current parliament?
– I am concerned in the current parliament is the very exaggerated number of parliament members, which is not a good advantage for them, besides that the absence of the Shura Council is not in the interest of the country. It is true that members of Parliament are chosen from the common people, but the second council in all countries balances the choices of the first council, and we had wise men in the Shura Council who were more specialized and better able to formulate what was consistent with the constitution. I am also concerned about the absence of a majority party.
Is the absence of a majority party in Egypt is a negative?
The absence of a majority party, and the absence of a real role for parties in making Egyptian politics, is a situation that resembles a team playing in a competition alone without competitors, and therefore the quality and impact decreases.
Do you think that there should be a party for the president in Egypt? What is the reason for the fading role of parties in Egypt?
The world has developed throughout the world, and there is technological development and digital culture that has changed everything in the world.
The citizens who are members of the major parties in Europe and America are few, but the idea is in the leaders who influence the policy making, and there are many parties in Europe whose names have changed, some of them merged and some disintegrated, and there is no one angry, the combination needs a great deal of political wisdom because we cannot reach the form that we used to be. Otherwise, we will reach the same result as we did.
After January 25, 2011, the number of parties increased and exceeded the 100 parties. Are you in favor of merging these parties?
– I think that if the party does not win any seats during two parliamentary sessions, it does not exist.
So far, the local administration law has not been approved by Parliament in order to implement it. How do you see this matter?
– There is a constitutional entitlement, the local administration law is a trend towards decentralization as the constitution said, and this is the most dangerous and most important thing for Egypt’s political growth and needs wisdom and gradual implementation because you cannot say tomorrow we will transfer the central authority to the local authority, you must prepare the people for that and prepare the leaders within a framework Gradually it starts with services and rights and then ends with budgets and the political side. I do not find that the existing law achieves these data, and there are no real discussions dealing with these matters.
You spoke earlier that you have a training center for parliamentarians. Tell us about this center. What are your impressions of the representatives?
– Representatives of the people do not need me to train them, but I pass on my previous experience in Parliament to whomever wants, whether in an academic or political framework, and my relationship with a large number of representatives is very good, as well as I am an advisor to the Parliament’s Education Committee, and I see that Parliament has a large number of representatives Respected representatives, but it is dissolved in a very large number of deputies, the number of deputies in the current parliament is more than the number of deputies in a country like India, whose population is more than ours about 10 times.
In your opinion, what is the appropriate number of deputies in Parliament?
In all countries of the world the number of representatives is related to the number of the population, because the parliamentarian must serve a specific number of the population, and representation should not be exaggerated and the districts should not be exaggerated in their area so as not to become serviceable, knowing that Parliament is one arm and the second arm is the localities In the way we established the current parliament, we have brought parliament into the localities, and we have been without local leaders for the past 8 years. There is a failure to move towards decentralization in Egypt.
Do you intend to run in the upcoming parliamentary elections?
– I do not have this desire, and I serve my country in specific frameworks now, all of which are public work through my civil associations, whether in education, health or with youth, every time has the role of a person to play, but I transfer my experience to those who want, whether at the state level or on the Parliament or at the community level.
How do you see the new educational system?
– In order to judge a system, you must have a reference that says that this system achieves set goals or not, and I see that the Egyptian society, whether at the level of the media or the public, discusses its subsections and margins, forgetting that there is a holistic view, and the holistic view that the state approved and announced. The President of the Republic is Egypt’s 2030 vision in education.
What do you think of Egypt’s vision 2030 in education?
A committee was formed in the Ministry of Planning of 70 experts, and I was honored to be the head of this committee, to develop this vision during 18 months of work. There is a great deal of credibility, and we reviewed everything that was put into education, whether it succeeded or failed, and the different education strategies that each minister sets, then the next minister comes and overthrows it. , a period of time, material cost, responsibility and what are the indicators to measure, and this has not happened in any other vision in Egypt previously.
How was this vision built?
– The vision is built on 5 very simple axes, the first is availability, quality and justice. It should allow classes that make the density of students 35 students per class, and it is not done in general, but is done at the level of the village and the center, and the second axis is the government administration of the Ministry of Education, so what success It is related to how it is managed, as the Ministry of Education is the largest ministry in Egypt with 2 million employees and teachers and affects 23 million students, and therefore 23 million families, which means almost the entire community. The exam is solved digitally and evaluated digitally, and this is only done if the teacher also has the digital culture and it is integrated into his conscience and not a device he works with, and the fourth is building conscience and human industry because there may be a genius student and a genius engineer but a killer, and an excellent practitioner but without Ethics: it is necessary to build a normal human being who is capable of pluralism, tolerant and who has positive values, who can understand himself in his local, regional and global framework. Sports, art and teamwork, it must create a climate for the school, and the fifth axis is to be able to compete locally, regionally and globally, take initiative, and be able to build his work by himself and be a job maker and not a student, and each of these axes has goals that can be achieved, and it must be implemented These axes are planned with a decentralized plan, so they cannot be implemented with a central plan.
How do you see the steps taken by the Ministry of Education in this direction?
– I see that the steps taken by the Ministry of Education in this direction are serious, but they are steps in one or two parts, but they do not talk about the whole. In the availability axis, I do not find a plan that says that in every center, village or city what are my needs because a challenge will appear before you In some places in the delta, it will be said that there is no land to build on, and
Therefore, there must be solutions, and sometimes solutions are available and sometimes they are difficult, but it must make the community a partner, and there must be sustainability in the application, no matter how governments change.
Do you have confidence in the Ministry of Education and what do you think of the current Minister of Education?
Yes, I have confidence in the ministry, and the current minister is a good and excellent minister, but the current development does not serve the vision.
What do you think of free education?
– There is no country in the world that has 30% illiteracy, and more than it is poor, and 20% drop out of education, then you say we will give up free education, this means an increase in poverty and an increase in ignorance, it is supposed to allow more, education has a cost, but whoever pays the cost, pays it The whole community until the end of school, it is the right of the community to find education according to its ability until the end of education.
How do we end the phenomenon of private lessons?
Private tutoring is a symptom of a disease called the inefficiency of the education system, and the dependence of students’ evaluation on a certificate, as the whole issue has become to pass the exam, the student takes a lesson in order to pass the exam, and the teacher is using the exam to give the student a private lesson by compulsion.
We talk about the economic challenges facing Egypt. Do you see that Egypt is recovering economically?
– This is a multiple-answer question. The economic challenges I will start with are the product. Every person works and everyone has resources. For every person who works, you need to create a million annual jobs, and this needs investment. Is the volume of investment that is made from outside the state, whether the private sector or the sector The foreigner creates a million jobs.. No.. The middle class family must be accounted for, with what it spends on education, health, food, clothes and transportation. You can live with how much, this is a human vision, and number 3 is what is required to raise the standard of living for these families, either to make them earn more or make their expenses Less, half of that family’s resources go to education, health, and transportation. Supporting these sectors will indirectly raise the standard of living of Egyptian families. Is there a need for major state projects in terms of projects and roads… Yes, there is a need, and this is part of the most valuable economic work, so that it can achieve growth. Economically, it approaches 7 or 8%. You must have an infrastructure with airports, ports, roads, and sewage. Otherwise, the investor will not come to you. This is the part of the state that you do, but it is part of the whole. T Earning less than you spend and we cover that through debts, so debt is the biggest burden on the Egyptian state, whether it is an internal or external debt. We must either reduce our spending or improve our spending, which means governance of the state administration. We are in a country with 7 million employees who do the work of one and a half million employees The multiplicity of people on whom it is spent are practicing the same job, which ends up in corruption, lack of resources and poor service.
How do you see the fate of the Brotherhood?
– Egypt on June 30 did what no other country in the world does, as it rejected the religious rule in Egypt through the practice of political Islam through the Brotherhood. The largest country in the Middle East and they failed, they do not have political forces in the country but they are behind every terrorist act that happens in the country.
How do you see the project to renew religious discourse?
– The president is brave enough to speak on this subject because it is a very important topic, and there is a difference between renewing religious discourse, and repackaging religious discourse with a cover that may be accepted, but without changing the substance. I will return to the Islamic cultural strategy that emerged from the 1991 Dakar meeting, which was attended by 57 countries. An Islamic statement was issued saying that we, as Islamic countries, must review the Islamic cultural heritage critically and not a museum review, that is, we purify it from the sayings that entered it and are not sacred sayings, as they are human sayings, but they do not fit the current era, the religious discourse must be reviewed by the whole society and not limited For the clergy only.
