Hossam Badrawi Official Website
Speaking of youth empowerment and education, a name of a man who dedicated his life in public activity to these two issues comes in mind. He does not let down those who turn to him, even in the most perilous circumstances the country went through and despite considering him a member of a regime that Egyptians revolted against.
Dr. Hossam Badrawi, who favored his principles and supported the youth against Mubarak’s regime in which he himself was a member, still has the same personality, even if he is away from the spotlights. We cannot ignore an experience and proficiency to which experts from home and abroad attested, whether we agree or disagree with him. Universities and research centers across the world invite him to give lectures there, even to award him honorary Ph.D. for his knowledge and experience.
“Al-Akhbar” interviewed Badrawi to benefit from his long experience and understand his opinion on the First Youth Conference that has been recently held in Sharm El-Sheikh, under auspices of President Al-Sisi, in addition to other issues. The dialogue is as follows:
A government of 36 ministers and should be reduced to 16
The President’s dialogue with the youth is excellent; it creates young cadres and should be repeated in the governorates.
The government should talk to citizens transparently and should give them hope as they are running out of patience.
Parties’ position is weak and remains the same after 2 revolutions; they cannot form a majority.
National projects plan is the beginning of any country advancement.
- First, how do you see the liberalization of the exchange rate? Is it the right time for this procedure within the country critical circumstances?
This should be dealt with according to what the experience requires and what the history tells. Any currency that has 2 exchange rates is nothing but a fuel to fire. It is only in the interest of brokers at the expense of economy. Not respecting the truth and claiming there is a price that differs from the supply and demand mechanisms, as it used to happen in the USD rate in black market, always leads to a tragedy.
In my opinion, underproduction is the main reason for the USD rate increase and EGP decrease. It led to a gap between importing and exporting. The second reason based on importance is the tourism sector deterioration. It led to depletion of USD sources that were earned through this vital sector and turning the transfers that Egyptians make from abroad away from the banking system, depriving the country from USD 20bn inflows annually.
I consider that “liberalizing the exchange rate is a correct procedure. It was a must for adjustment. The longer you wait, the worse it gets. That drove me to support the step that CBE took by liberalizing EGP exchange rate”.
In the same course, the real solution lies in Egyptian economy recovery, investment facilitating, production increase and doubling the exporting capacity. This is in addition to the creative solutions to return the transfers that Egyptians abroad to its legitimate course.
- Is the citizen the password to overcome the current time difficulties?
Yes. The citizen is the password. Citizen is not just a body and needs; s/he is a soul and essence too. We should address the citizen in whole, not just his/her needs.
Nations do not overcome their hardships unless they utilize all their people’s potentialities. From this perspective, Egypt is great, beautiful and capable. From my point of view, a dream is not a project with a feasibility study; the dream and hope go beyond the material and calculation aspects to a greater amount of happiness and welfare to the citizen.
Our duty as politicians is not limited to develop policies and projects; it expands to materialize these policies and projects. This needs a broad vision that goes beyond numbers and calculations and has faith, potentials and invisible abilities in society members.
In my opinion, all what we mentioned will achieve eventually a greater outcome, make practically possible what is theoretically impossible, and offer new and renewable energy ignited by hope, led by ambition, run by mind and driven by dream.
Calls for demonstrations
- What do you think about the calls for demonstrations on 11/11 addressed to the youth? As a politician, what is your message for its supporters?
I will ask the youth, the society and myself, what do we want? Destruction revolutions or thought revolutions?
I start saying that stupidity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Crowds’ marching in typical revolutions and demonstrations happens for major reasons, as demanding a president to resign, evicting an occupier, general oppression of a state organization, etc. Demonstrations do not change the details such as the way the country is run, decentralization, monetary system, options of economic system, education developing, medical care or government volume, but rather by hard work of competent specialists. Throughout history, all the major demonstrations and revolutions replace a person with a person or a regime with a regime. Based on studying the revolutions history, normally after a revolution starts by 3-4 days, the most financed and organized party controls and drives it. This is how Muslim Brotherhood got the control after January 25 Revolution and how Muslim Brotherhood and political religious movement gained the ground after forcing out the then- available secular movement. In this manner, the armed forces found itself obligated to take charge after June 30 Revolution. Without organization and direction, the country would have gone to anarchy and been controlled by those who have ability with their organization and financing, after people leave to their homes. On the other hand, if there is more than one faction on the surface, and power and influence are close, it will be the road to civil war, especially with the intervention of intelligence agencies of other countries which are financed and organized in order to achieve their interests. Do we need a new revolution after two attempts in five year? Or we need a change within the framework of continuity and stability? We need to work for competent persons and creative youth to be at the top of the scene and to take responsibility. I favor the country interest within legitimacy, not within typical revolutions and demonstrations.
What we need is revolutions of thought, work, creativity and innovation to find solutions for our challenges. What we need is to revolt against stupidity and doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results, not revolutions with demonstrations, destruction and killing those who oppose us.
Youth empowerment
- What do you think about the first Youth Conference (YC), launched by President Al-Sisi?
Having 3000 youth from all governorates with different compositions and backgrounds for 3 days is nothing but an additional value to the state that we did have for a long time. Presence of the government, heads of political parties and civil society in the YC held in Sharm El-Sheikh created an unconventional dialogue among various age groups. In addition, the achievements resulted from the direct discussions between the president and prime minister with youth could lead to creating ambitions and new young cadres that can think scientifically using evidence and proof. The matters the YC addressed such as “media, education, religious discourse, economy, etc.” actually needed serious discussions. Being out of decision-making circle and a member of the civil society at the same time, I closely followed the reactions to conference, which created a positive energy, in my opinion. Even the criticism that some directed for not being invited is a positive thing and indicates a desire to participate.
- Is the first Youth Conference a new start for youth empowerment?
I believe the state is trying to demonstrate it is serious about its interest in young people, keenness to work on their empowerment, through this conference. Most importantly, in my opinion, is the continuity of this experiment to empower the youth and repeating this type of conferences in all the governorates.
In fact, caring about youth begins with the education issue.
- Will the following steps towards youth empowerment be under the responsibility of the government and the state or the youth?
In my point of view, if we want the experiment to succeed and to have youth in decision-making circle, the responsibility in this matter will lie on the entire society. However, the state still has the primary responsibility. In addition, the government should facilitate it to youth and work towards empowering them at governorates and ministries level. In my opinion, governors play more important role in disseminating thought as it has tangible results.
However, youth empowerment process should rest on efficiency, education and training. All these are everyone’s responsibility.
The youth must know and realize that.
- What is the difference between Al-Sisi, Mubarak and former eras in terms of youth empowerment?
For 15 years, I wrote articles about the necessity of youth empowerment. I participated in founding NGOs supporting youth, such as “Dreamers of Tomorrow, Takatof Association, Egyptian National Competitiveness Council, Education First, etc.” All aim to empower youth and prepare them for political life, since the 90s.
The new thing in Al-Sisi era is that he listens to youth opinions, sufferings, and problems directly. That is a good thing as it became clear during the first monthly YC we are talking about, however it is a great responsibility as their expectations will be greater afterwards.
Developing education
All the governments that took office before and after the revolution talked about developing the education but did not succeed. Does the problem lie in the unavailable cost as it is said?
The cost would never hinder developing the education. Though the budget should be increased, I assure you that expenditure rationalizing will offer enormous resources for education. The society proved its ability and willingness to participate in different forms. However, there is a lack of trust between the society and the state regarding managing the educational process.. despite the society is right.
The education projects that the state announced about are all lights shining in various places, but not combined into an integrated vision that allows the society to experience a major breakthrough. In its turn, the society trusts, backs up and supports the government and its proposals.
- In your view, what is the approach to education development? Did the state take any serious step for it?
First, I would like to state to you the education vision in which every single word means goals, projects, execution time unit, cost, and measurement standards.
It is not just empty talk!
The vision states “a high-quality education available to all, without discrimination, within an efficient, just, sustainable, flexible institutional framework, based on the technologically empowered learner. It contributes to building an integrated character and unleashing the full potentials of a citizen who is proud, enlightened and responsible, accepts diversity, respects differences, and is proud of the country history and passionate about building its future and competitive regional and international entities.”
If we want to develop education in Egypt, we should follow these 10 directions. The first is we must know that we need to change the education system, not to develop it. The second lies in educational process management. At the top priority of this comes the centralized level “the government and ministry” and decentralized level “governors”. We must consider education within human development that includes culture, youth, higher education and scientific research as a one undivided unit.
The third is the “school” which remains the basis of change as focusing should be on principals and teachers, upgrading their proficiency and refusing to leave our youth in any way whatsoever in the hands of those who do not know or match the declared and clear proficiency standards.
The fourth is restoring the society trust in education system by making a positive effective effect in a critical volume of schools, which would make the society not an adversary, but a partner and ally of change. The fifth is the change of the evaluation system and applying it using technology means immediately. The sixth is revising all curricula within a short period by comparing it with curricula of countries that advanced us, in a manner that does not conflict with the identity represented by Arabic language and history. The values that curricula disseminate in our children minds and the practices that spread discord and extremism among them must be revised. The seventh is to declare the change steps to the society, setting a time track and means of measuring success, in each governorate. The eighth is to integrate scientific research and the 21st century skills into the system, and not to waive sports and arts practice at schools. Since the state plays the role of higher education organizer, not its service provider, things are easier in its regard. There are clear frameworks suggested to make a breakthrough. The ninth includes technical education and vocational training. The tenth addresses the pre-school education which affects students’ learning when joining primary education.
I neither exclude Azhari education from the system nor exclude food and health from education change and development system too. This is just what comes in mind in an interview. However, there are specific details and clear implementation frameworks in 2030 Vision which I was honored to facilitate its activity in education.
- Can investing in education be a solution?
There is no investment with higher return than investing in people. The base of social justice is equality of opportunities which can be achieved by science and knowledge only. Education is the core of freedom. If an ignorant nation imagines obtaining its freedom, it seeks what has never happened in history and will never happen in the future.
If by your question you mean the state-private sector partnership, it is a solution to fill the gap between available budgets and the country needs. The state-private sector partnership has many creative and innovative ideas that can achieve the vision goals.
Scientific research
- What about the scientific research?
Scientific research is one of the foundations on which universities exist. Research centers and higher education institutions should compete for scientific research budget which the state shall offer in form of research projects that the state decided their significance to the present and future of the country, such as health, alternative energy, increasing the agricultural capacity and industries from its products, water, technology, information, etc.
A state position in scientific research is measured by the researches published in value recognized scientific periodicals and what is adopted from the same, as well as the number of patents that are presented by the state or material implementation of innovations.
For research institutions that spend budgets on salaries and buildings without competing for research financing or issuing, as I mentioned, are a burden on a taxpayer.
- Do universities in Egypt perform their higher education duty satisfyingly?
The word “satisfyingly” now has specific standards. No judgments should be made without checking if these universities apply the international quality standards. I will say a wise and key quote of Dr. Taha Hussein, “A university is not a place where a scientist only is made up, but where a civilized man, who is not satisfied by being cultured but concerned to be a source of culture, is made up. He is not satisfied by being civilized, but concerned to be a civilization developer. If the university fails to achieve one of these two features, then it does not deserve to be a university; it is just one of so many humble schools. It does not deserve to be a source of light for the homeland where it is established and for the humanity, it works for. It is merely a factory that prepares for humanity a group of workmen whose expectations are limited in making good and reform.”
Combatting corruption
- Do you believe the state combats corruption well?
Corruption is an impression that citizens have. The prevailing impression affirms its widespread and making it an undeniable fact. From its side, the state attempts to combat it, but it requires courageous decisions in this regard. I observe that the president resorts to the armed forces to avoid the corruption in other sectors. In my opinion, if we apply the armed forces work principles to all ministries, meaning the strict administration, commitment and ability to reward or punish within a framework that does not allow for employees’ evasion, then we will be able to eradicate corruption. Everyone knows that poor administration, thousands of conflicting laws and regulations that are used by seekers of advancement freezing and corruptors and increase of employment of civil servants five times more than required, leading to low salaries. The work that can be done by one while it is done by 5 in the state administrative organ leads to delay and poor quality in the service provided.
- What is your opinion on national projects? Were they necessary?
All the world countries that experience war, disasters, revolutions, economic collapse start the advancement plan with national projects since it is the fastest way to create job opportunities, build infrastructure and open employment doors rapidly. A citizen should be patient and should give the full opportunity until the plans are finished. However, incompetency of some government institutions should not be tolerated. It is the citizen’s right, preceded by media, to understand. The citizen must know about the projects, their feasibility and the next step of opening investment horizons to create new job opportunities that have greater value in the near future. Government members must be political, speak transparently to the citizens, update them with all details and bring them hope.
- Does the current government deal with citizens in the required transparency? Do its ministers have the political charisma from your point of view?
The government does not adequately speak with the citizens or appropriately face the citizen. I cannot find joint responsibility between them. I might be wrong, but this is what citizens can see from outside.
The government should not only absorb anger, before citizens run out of patience because of crises of the price increase, etc. which they experience compared to their abilities, but also fully eliminate the anger reasons. Sometimes, I see a good citizen as if his back is against a wall in front of what he sometimes encounters of incompetency of institutions that provide or control his services. Since he is a good citizen, he is limited to complaining when the state is not collapsed once encounters it. At the same time, he is limited to his worry, and sometimes anger, that should be expressed in the context of legitimacy.
National projects are vital. Building the state’s infrastructure is the base for investment flow and development, but it does not directly meet street needs. Thus, the government should always be in touch with a citizen, build trust, explain its objectives and time plans; it will not succeed unless with people’s support. It should increase efficiency and communicate with citizens.
Ministries Integrations
- Do we need a cabinet reshuffle or a change of the government?
Having a government of 36 ministers confuses the regime work. Some ministries should be integrated. The state administration requires more efficiency. Each stage should have its tools. We may need great changes in the government, not in individuals. For example, it could be logical to decrease the ministries to 16, the prime minister should have executive deputies responsible for joint developmental goals such as human development that includes education of all types, youth and culture, services such as health, economic group which includes finance, economy, industry, agriculture and trade, then the national security and foreign policy, etc. I know that such studies of increasing government efficiency and ensuring its policies sustainability are available to decision makers. The matter is not about changing persons and ministers, but an integrated vision that jointly benefits from the government member abilities, like a symphony orchestra, that each of them may be individually very skillful, but they do not have the same note and maestro. I assure that is all available and possible, but requires crucial decisions. Such change in the state administration could be a good reason for the people to realize they are entering a new stage with a new mindset, not just replacing ministers. By the way, a minister’s real task is a political one. A confident successful politician surrounds himself with competent people and stars and is not afraid of having them around him.
- Why does the state fear of appointing politician, non-specialist ministers, as you say?
The real fear is about the public opinion and media that, over time, became unable to imagine a political minister, but see and demand him to provide the service himself. Sustainability of any ministry policies rests on consistency of executive deputies, not the minister.
- Everyone rests their fear of making decision upon media. Is media the reason behind the state problems?
No, sir, media is one of state’s significant tools, creator of its conscience, along with art, culture and education. Sometimes media has certain trends, as it cannot escape committing to its financing or management policies. It may form a part of facts distortion in the street. Hence, the state should have a hand, not in controlling others but in propagating its trends transparently, not from behind.
Other times, lack of communication and transparency lead to a conflict. The state should clearly declare its trends. The media have the right to disagree with it. This is much better than disagreeing without knowing the truth.
- Does the parties’ situation in Egypt become different after disbanding the NDP?
It does not. All the reasons blamed for weakness, such as the NDP, disappeared. Still none of them can secure majority to form a government. This is a political and constitutional deadlock.
